<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="" bgcolor=""> Short version: <ul> <li>An archived mailing list is not a third site</li> <li>Working on Sagamore's website does not necessarily require a third site </li> </ul> Detailed point-to-point reply below. On 03/11/2013 12:59 PM, Monica Ellingson wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> Dave, Thank you for sending these options. Looking at one of the initial parent responses, I have a few questions: </blockquote> You're welcome. I'm happy these idea's, however poorly thought out or articulated, are being discussed. <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">1) are you saying that this is a different parent site from the PTA and school site? </blockquote> If it needs to be, but not necessarily. I did mention a third website, for the following reasons. The <a href="http://www.dekalb.k12.ga.us/sagamore">district hosted site</a> is limited in editing access and ease (from my understanding, others please correct me (John?)). For example, it cannot be edited from the web, old revisions are not saved (to be restored upon editing error), and there's no trail of activity (who edited what). Granted, those thing aren't important if the existing workflow continues, where one technically capable individual is responsible for all updates (is that how it is now?), but I was hoping we could move towards a more distributed workflow, where individuals who need to publish are able. I also noticed when <a title="User:Dave/workspace/2012 online assessment - Parents" href="http://www.9.0ne.org/w/User:Dave/workspace/2012_online_assessment">looking at Oak Grove's setup</a> they're using something with their district hosted site called FirstClass, which I'm unfamiliar with—maybe it provide the capabilities I'm looking for? I was told (by Kim maybe?) that there was interest in breaking out the wider school parent serving functions of the PTA website, and maintaining the PTA website more specific to the PTA? It's not really clear to me how that distinction is made. Maybe one speaks to parents trying to help their kids, while the other speaks to parents trying to help the school (through the PTA)? I don't think the distinction is terribly important. Maybe I misunderstood and all that's wanted is a domain name without "pta" in it? <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">2) OR are you saying that this discussion functionality would merely be an added feature to the PTA site? Please clarify. </blockquote> The discussion functionality I'm suggesting would primarily be a mailing list (an email discussion list), so it's not a feature of a website—it happens through email. There would be a web browsable archive of past discussion, but I wouldn't consider it its own site. <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">If it's a third site - PTA, school, parents site, I'm unsure of the need/business case for that especially considering the ongoing maintenance. If it's merely an additional discussion feature, rather than a separate site, sounds good. </blockquote> Point taken. Again, these site distinctions are not too important to me, I was just trying to include input I'd heard elsewhere (but where? Kim, Heather… someone want to speak up to this?). My understanding was the maintenance on the district site would become minimal because we wouldn't put much information there, and instead point them to a site more easily managed by those making updates (the fresher site). I just recently, on my own, suggested the idea of a site distanced from the PTA because I wasn't sure if the open discussion I'm wanting to encourage is something the PTA would be able to support (for whatever reason). Perhaps the PTA could speak to that? I would much rather that any of the efforts I've mentioned are supported by the PTA. <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">I do think we need a champion who will commit to seeding the discussion with content and interesting topics. </blockquote> Good point that community needs to be cultivated. I was hoping though that by simply re-routing some current email activity happening between individuals into different mailing lists, we would see benefit without much change/effort. Candidates in my mind: <ul> <li>Some inter-PTA discussion</li> <li>Event coordinating</li> <li>Classroom parents discussion</li> </ul> <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">Our twitter and FB accounts need similar content commitment. </blockquote> Maybe that's why I'm not interested in those communication channels. :) (Not saying they shouldn't exist, just that I can't defend them.) <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">Thanks!! </blockquote> Thank you! <blockquote cite="mid:CAFBv09Xmb_b1scefyG-2scNJqi6JoPKL7pMcwOaESFq-evWGvw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <div>On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Dave Allen Barker Jr <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dave@1.0ne.org">dave@1.0ne.org</a>> wrote: <blockquote> <div> Kim Speece (PTA co-president) and I got a chance to talk on Friday about online and general communication efforts in service of the Sagamore Hills ES community. So, I'll describe my ideas, and I hope to hear feedback, or ideas of your own, from y'all. Participating in this discussion so far are: myself, Kim, Monica, Heather, Vera, John, Jonathan, and Sally—and anyone is welcome to <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="sagamore.online Info Page" href="http://list.9.0ne.org/list/listinfo/sagamore.online">join</a> or <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="The sagamore.online Archives" href="http://list.9.0ne.org/archive/sagamore.online/">follow along</a>. Short version of what I'd like to do: <ul> <li>Buy the domain name "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sagamoreparents.org">sagamoreparents.org</a>" ($10/y) through the PTA's existing Dreamhost account </li> <li>Establish email discussion lists @<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://groups.sagamoreparents.org">groups.sagamoreparents.org</a> for things like general Sagamore and per-grade discussion amongst parents </li> <li>Promote the mailing through the PTA (newsletter)</li> <li>New website (first at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://dev.sagamoreparents.org">dev.sagamoreparents.org</a>) where we work on a new reference website for all Sagamore parent static information needs</li> </ul> Should I/we do it? And now… a lot of words. <h2>Archived Mailing Lists </h2> Short version: synergies of information distribution, parent involvement, volunteer knowledge transfer, and school promotion, can be ours by simply routing all email exchange through archived mailing (discussion) lists. <h3>Scenarios</h3> <ul> <li>A parent wonders about the state of the pond beside the school </li> <dl> <dt>Without archived mailing lists</dt> <dd>The parent chats with their nearest neighbor or emails the PTA. Information sources are limited and the answer finds a limited audience and is lost to the future.</dd> </dl> <dl> <dt>With archived mailing list</dt> <dd>A message to the school-wide, general-interest mailing list allows the PTA to respond, as well as any other random parent who can add some information. Other parents on the list learn something they would not have otherwise, and the discussion can be pointed to (in the archive) when the question inevitably comes up again.</dd> </dl> <li>Organizers put on Science Night</li> <dl> <dt>Without archived mailing lists</dt> <dd>A handful of organizers begin work via email. They solicit volunteers through the weekly PTA newsletter. Volunteers are addressed individually by the organizers, often with repetition of information. Many ideas are passed around, and the best are utilized for that year's event. The experience of the effort are lost to personal email boxes.</dd> </dl> <dl> <dt>With archived mailing lists</dt> <dd>A handful of organizers begin work via a mailing list. They solicit volunteers through the weekly PTA newsletter, and those with extra interest can get up to speed with the organizers' work by reviewing the mailing list archive. Volunteers are addressed on the mailing list as well, where answers to individual volunteer questions can benefit others. More enthusiasm and resources come to the project as volunteers get each other excited. When next year rolls around, the experiences of the prior year can be reviewed through the mailing list archive.</dd> </dl> <li>PTA records a meeting's minutes </li> <dl> <dt>Without archived mailing lists</dt> <dd>A single meeting minutes document is generated, and nothing more comes of it. </dd> </dl> <dl> <dt>With archived mailing lists</dt> <dd>A single meeting minutes document is generated and posted to the mailing list. Parents on the list can stay informed, and the list can host related discussion. The PTA can participate as much or little as they'd like in resulting discussion—even just having access to other parent sentiment is useful to the PTA.</dd> </dl> </ul> <h3>Implementation</h3> A couple mailing list systems come to my mind, of course there are others that could be considered too. One option is <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager" href="https://gnu.org/software/mailman/">Mailman</a>, software that can run on any hosting service (like <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Sagamore Hills PTA Dreamhost account - Parents" href="http://www.9.0ne.org/mw/index.php?title=Sagamore_Hills_PTA_Dreamhost_account&oldid=548">Dreamhost we have now</a>). It allows users and admins to manage subscriptions through both email and the web, and generates web accessible archives. It's what powers <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="sagamore.online Info Page" href="http://list.9.0ne.org/list/listinfo/sagamore.online">this list</a> and <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="list.9.0ne.org Mailing Lists" href="http://list.9.0ne.org/list/listinfo">others</a>. Another option is <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://groups.google.com/">Google Groups</a>, which, in addition to what Mailman does, allows posting to the list through the web (not just email). Lists would be under Google's domain (@<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://googlegroups.com">googlegroups.com</a>) for free. Our own domain could be used with Google Groups by using <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://apps.google.com/">Google Apps</a>, which is <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Google Apps for Nonprofits - Google Apps Help" href="http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&topic=29190&ctx=topic&answer=2858465">free for non-profits</a> (is the PTA a non-profit?) and <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Google Apps for Education - Google Apps Help" href="http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2856827&topic=29190&ctx=topic">education</a> (would have to be associated with the school), or <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Pricing – Google Apps for Business | United States" href="http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html">$50 per year (per user</a>, but I think we'd need only one user to create groups (mailing lists)). I think I'm leaning towards Mailman, for the control and simplicity (once setup (which I can do)), but there's an appeal to Google doing the hosting, and we may decide to lean on other of their service offerings anyway. We can always switch either way, without much pain, if setup right. <h2>Website for Parents</h2> Mostly, we just need to put time in curating the content of the site. But I'd like to talk a bit about platform. Currently we (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http:///sagamorepta.org/">sagamorepta.org</a>) uses <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="WordPress › Blog Tool, Publishing Platform, and CMS" href="https://wordpress.org/">Wordpress</a> with a customized <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="zeeSynergie | ThemeZee.com" href="http://themezee.com/zeesynergie/">theme</a>. To refresh the look, I think we should use Wordpress's current default theme (<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="WordPress › Twenty Twelve « Free WordPress Themes" href="http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/twentytwelve">twenty-twelve</a>) (well tested, supported, and featureful) and create a <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Child Themes « WordPress Codex" href="http://codex.wordpress.org/Child_Themes">child theme</a> with some of John's recent "Be more." design (ala Sagamore's district hosted site). I've made <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Sagamore Hills PTA website - Parents" href="http://www.9.0ne.org/w/Sagamore_Hills_PTA_website">a place where we can document other ideas</a>. I'm also enamored by the idea of the site being a wiki so anyone can "scratch their itch" to the benefit of others. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.9.0ne.org/w/Main_Page">I've been experimenting.</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Learn more about Google Sites" href="http://www.google.com/sites/help/intl/en/overview.html">Google Sites</a> might be neat. Similar to Google Groups mentioned earlier in how it can optionally (via Google Apps) be under our own domain name. <h2>Going Google</h2> Google got my attention last year when I was helping <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ogycs.org/">Oak Grove Young Children's School</a> establish their own web presence (prior <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ogumc.org/ycs/">they were hanging off Oak Grove United Methodist Church</a>). I took <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Google Apps Test 2012-01 - Internal OGYCS" href="http://internal.ogycs.org/projects/website-2011/google-apps-test-2012-01">notes while I tested a Google Apps account for them</a>, playing with Groups, website (Sites), Calendar(ing), document sharing (now Drive), and more. It was way more solution than they needed, but that might not be the case for us. I'm conflicted on "going Google". I'm excited to roll with a major innovator, and leveraging new ways of working. I'm weary of relying on a single vendor, and we still have untapped potential in the tools we use now. Plus, we can always selectively test out individual Google product offerings (I can imagine <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.google.com/intl/en_US/drive/start/index.html">Google Drive</a> being useful). <h2>Domain Name</h2> It's been suggested we should have a new domain name, leaving "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sagamorehillspta.org">sagamorehillspta.org</a>" to speak more directly to the PTA. As I think about shaking things up a bit, and getting parents more involved and communicating, I wonder if doing that somewhat distanced from the school and the PTA is indeed the right answer. I would hate to see discussion stifled on mailing lists because the PTA didn't feel comfortable hosting particular discussion through their domain. I was thinking "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sagamorehillses.org">sagamorehillses.org</a>" at first, but now think "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://sagamoreparents.org">sagamoreparents.org</a>" is better. That's really the audience I'd like to reach. <h2>Conclusion</h2> There's more I could blab about, but I'll stop for now. Thoughts? Thanks. </div> _______________________________________________ sagamore.online mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sagamore.online@list.9.0ne.org">sagamore.online@list.9.0ne.org</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://list.9.0ne.org/list/listinfo/sagamore.online">http://list.9.0ne.org/list/listinfo/sagamore.online</a> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </body> </html>